| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
462
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Posted - 2016.02.23 16:12:07 -
[1] - Quote
Love the graph. 
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 01:38:55 -
[2] - Quote
Just gonna leave this here...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
Eve is a 3rd party app. Not windows.
And since operating these 3rd party app's, does most certainly provide an advantage they are correctly and should remain against eula.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:06:33 -
[3] - Quote
Just posting in the directed thread.
"Windows is a application that operates at a high languge communcating a interface to the computers binary code." Does not make windows a 3rd party app.
Besides you can try to play semantics all you want.
"having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."
Says it all. Doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter how you want to interpret the definition of a 3rd party app. You say you can do the same thing just using windows... then do it. Then the eula won't make any difference.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:21:06 -
[4] - Quote
Just gonna post this for you one more time...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
And from another source...
"Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system."
So unless you can tell me what operating system windows operates under then you're just continuing to speak out of the wrong orifice. Your argument reeks of desperation at defending your isk cow. Your own argument defeats itself. The ability to combine multiple client interface elements into a single window unarguably presents an advantage to the user. Your own arguments state that, although you claim you can do the same thing with windows itself without 3rd party software, doing so is more difficult. So there you go, the extra software makes it easier i.e. present an advantage.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:26:03 -
[5] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Just gonna post this for you one more time...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
And from another source...
"Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system."
So unless you can tell me what operating system windows operates under then you're just continuing to speak out of the wrong orifice. Your argument reeks of desperation at defending your isk cow. You keep posting a quote from wisegeeks like it matters?
Edit: look up the definition of third party software for yourself. The source doesn't matter the answer is the same. (hence the second source definition I added in on that last post)
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:35:13 -
[6] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule.
My point exactly.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:38:58 -
[7] - Quote
One
Two
Three
Four
As I said before...It's all moot anyway.
"We do not endorse or condone the use of player-made software or any other third party applications or software that confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or is used for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk."
"We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."
Doesn't matter how you define a 3rd party app CCP go the extra mile and not only put the ball SOLELY in their court in determining what they will and will not allow but they also give very specific examples as to what they will NOT allow.
Have a nice day.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:45:21 -
[8] - Quote
See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. 
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:52:51 -
[9] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow.
Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:01:11 -
[10] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow. Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time. You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered. That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing.
Which they quite literally reserve the right to do in the licensing agreement you agreed to when you started your account(s).
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:23:51 -
[11] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow. Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time. You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered. That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing. Which they quite literally reserve the right to do in the licensing agreement you agreed to when you started your account(s). except that they have neither allowed or disallowed any specific programs within the eula The eula is what has been agreed to. and last i checked i didnt sign a eula that said windows ok, everything else no. Any alteration to the eula must be updated and reaccepted. If there was a specification of programs they must be in the eula and not some forum post that most people dont even read.
The point is they don't have to. They can't rewrite the eula and make everyone sign it again every time a new piece of software is released. No one does. The eula is very intentionally and specifically written in such a way as to leave them the leeway to make decisions and the need arises. (all eula's are) If they really wanted to they could simply ban you as soon as you do anything they don't like. Instead though they implement a warning system and provide information through sources like that devblog to provide available examples of what THEY CHOOSE to allow and not allow.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:35:13 -
[12] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Actually they couldnt ban anyone just because they do something they dont like. As the subscription is a contract. And i disagree that they have as much leeway as you claim. This brings me back to the overlays and having real time information. They have a issue with that. By having more than one client open at any one time you have that real time information. Windows does that.
The eula is the contract and it doesn't matter if you agree. If you think they have to state specifically every single thing that is and isn't allowed then you are just loopy. I'm sorry, I don't intend to sound insulting but the thought process just isn't sound. If you have an issue with the wording of the eula then either don't agree to it (and don't play eve) or call your lawyer. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
471
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:41:36 -
[13] - Quote
I think this rabbit hole has officially reached china... or whatever country happens to be on the opposite side of the world from you.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
471
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:57:45 -
[14] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:
edit: to the stalker. Yes the eula is the contract. And therefore they cannot ban you because you do something they dont like. It has to be a violation of the eula specificly. And while inital discretion is theres according to the eula, once a decision has been made regarding a program it must be added to the eula and not some forum post that most players dont read and 0 players give their consent to. Cannot change the eula without a new eula and a forum post declaring new activities or programs being valid or invalid is a change in the eula. Before you could do it, now you cant= eula changed.
Whatever helps you sleep better at night.
1. "Without limiting CCP's rights or remedies, CCP may immediately, and without notice, discontinue or suspend access to the System through your Account, and any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the discontinued or suspended Account, in the event of (i) a breach of the EULA (including the Rules of Conduct) by you or any user under your Account; or (ii) unauthorized access to the System or use of the Game by you or any user under your Account."
2. GÇ£We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use such third party applications or other software at your own risk.GÇ¥
3. "We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules." see note 2 and refer to note 1 for potential consequences.
"Our discretion" is a very important point. Doesn't matter if you think it's fair. You've got not legal ground to stand on because it's the eula you agreed to.
Edit: No where does it say they will nor is there a legal requirement for them to rewrite the eula to reflect specific situations nor does it prevent them from saying "it's ok today and you're banned for it next week... oh and then it's ok again" Their discretion means their discretion.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
471
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Posted - 2016.02.28 04:08:55 -
[15] - Quote
You seem to be missing the point in regards to the simple phrase, "in their discretion." I don't think you quite grasp that it's not only extremely vague but it's intentionally that way. The eula has not changed, their discretion has. Hence... "their discretion."
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
471
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Posted - 2016.02.28 04:18:45 -
[16] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:You seem to be missing the point in regards to the simple phrase, "in their discretion." I don't think you quite grasp that it's not only extremely vague but it's intentionally that way. The eula has not changed, their discretion has. Hence... "their discretion." You dont seem to grasp how discretion from one eula to another can mean different things. old eula discretion ment that you could do it. New eula discretion means you cannot. Its the same word but has a different meaning.
It means neither... It means they can decide on a case by case basis what to allow and what not to allow. You are seriously grasping at straws and I'm done wasting my time trying to talk any sense to the senseless. If you think you can interpret it however you want then go ahead. I'll look forward to your "I've been banned and it's not fair" post in GD.
Daemun of Khanid
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